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Welsh Punk Not Dead? (MANICS)

 
  

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Not Here Still
20:32 / 23.01.02
One or two Manics stories are surfacing, for some reason...

Probably because, unless he is found alive by February 1, Richey Edwards could be declared dead.

In Wales today, they had what could have been one of the best music stories ever on the cover of the Welsh Mirror - 'My Son Is NOT DEAD' by Richey's mum. But what she meant was not that he had been found - but that she wouldn't accept he was dead.

He won't be declared dead, either, as his family have to sign the death certificate.

But what I'm hoping to bring out of this is, what did/do you think of the early Cult of the Manics? I know a lot of people here will say they're old hat etc now - but I don't really want to debate that. What do you think of a band who drew such an intense following? Were you a fan?

And, if you want: is Richey dead?
 
 
The Knowledge +1
21:14 / 23.01.02
He's not dead. I took pity at the last moment and told him to leave the country instead.

Was thinking about that 4 real incident the other day funnily enough. Anyone got a picture? That's some bold shit.
 
 
NotBlue
21:15 / 23.01.02
Massive early fan, as to the cult, didn't know there was one because I was the only person I knew who really liked them, other than for "Motorcycle emptiness".
 
 
Seth
22:13 / 23.01.02
I read the a piece on this in NME today (without actually buying it, of course. Shudder). Personally, I reckon he's still alive, but I've nothing to base that on apart from my sick Elvis-intensity fanboy intuition. The evidence points both ways.

I'm a huge Manics fan, even up the point of having bought Know Your Enemy. Yeah, they're not nearly as good as they were, by a long shot. Richey was their conscience - they really should have changed their name after he left, and made a completely clean break with the past.

To all those who diss their last three records and have rose tinted glasses about the early stuff: try listening to Gold Against the Soul without wincing. Their worst apart form the new one.

But then, the idea of the Manics was always better than the actuality...

...apart from The Holy Bible. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome record, should be owned by everyone, everywhere. No British rock or punk band has even come close to equalling it since. Go and buy it if you haven't already got it!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:18 / 23.01.02
I'm not really up on early Manics, but I can safely say that post-Richey Edwards Manic Street Preachers is some of the worst rock/pop music that I've ever heard.
 
 
Seth
22:21 / 23.01.02
Flux: how 'bout I record you The Holy Bible in exchange for the Sensational record? I reckon you'd love it.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
22:31 / 23.01.02
expressionless:
quote:...apart from The Holy Bible. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome record, should be owned by everyone, everywhere.

indeed. and excellent Jenny Savile cover.
there were some very good tunes on the earlier three but there is an easy rule of thumb to gauge Manics' records, well ~ two rules of thumbs ~

with Richey's influence: glorious ~ without it: stadium rock

and

the Manics' output is inversely proportionate to James Dean Bradfield's girth /shaggability.

[edited to remove wankstains occasioned by thoughts of lovely James of yore]

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: ZoCher ]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:31 / 23.01.02
Sounds good to me. I've never heard anything bad about The Holy Bible...I'm curious to hear it.
 
 
T*M*U*M*A
22:45 / 23.01.02
ok .. i'll say something bad about it..

erm..

err...

NO!.. i just cant.. its a brilliant album..

i also have special love for thier debut.. cause thats the album which made me pick up the guitar.. and now .. after 5 years.. i can just about play all of it!

although the angular atonal nature of some of the songs from The Holy Bible does make it harder to work out.. i'm nearly all the way on that one too!

enough about me, early manics = genius

later manics = one of the best bands around .. but not of the same calibre as the early stuff
 
 
autopilot disengaged
22:49 / 23.01.02
i'm straight, but richey made me feel gay. the most beautiful man ever? when i was out one time a girl said i looked like him (don't - but was wearing make-up).

reader, i kissed her.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
23:24 / 23.01.02
Holy bible is good, but I thing everything must go is their best album.

What do people think about gold against the soul? From despair to where is a great fucking song.

Haven't seen them live yet. i heard they're amazing.
 
 
Seth
23:34 / 23.01.02
They're not always amazing live. But they generate an immense feeling, and it's brilliant to be there watching them.

I've got some live versions that of their stuff that are incredible. Kevin Carter always rocks (could have been a Holy Bible track, imagine it with the production sheen stripped off), especially at the Millenium gig (Bradfield playing the trumpet solo on guitar) and in Cuba (the local musician blasting the utter shit out of the solo was wicked). The live version of Walking Abortion at the Millenium gig was fucking intense.

Who here has heard much stuff pre-Generation Terrorists? Mowtown Junk is still one of their best tunes.
 
 
Seth
23:37 / 23.01.02
OOOH! I've got a brilliant live version of Theme from MASH, too!

Let's talk Manics rare shit! Anyone got early b-sides?
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
23:38 / 23.01.02
Gold does have some good songs on it.... tristessa, from despair to where, roses in the hospital and life becoming a landslide.... but you MUST listen to their pre- generation terrorists stuff. Motown junk, the whole new art riot ep- my favourite EP of all time- and suicide alley. The manics were THE soundtrack to my teenage angst. oh, fond, melancholy memories....
As for richey, i hope he's alive, if anybody could fake their own death sucessfully, he could. but that doesn't mean anything really. Ultimately, we don't know, and if he doesn't want to be found, then I hope he stays that way, for his own good.
And yes, they are amazing live. I had the supreme good fortune to have seen what they later claimed was their best gig ever, 97 livingston arena.
What's the bbc news article about? My main computer's fucked at the moment, and I'm posting via an old 486 running win3.1 and the bbc news site doesn't seem to work on this machine....
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
23:43 / 23.01.02
for rarities: you must hear the 'turning rebellion into money' bootleg. better than some of their official output. doesn't have suicide is painless on it though, is the only problem with it. If you ever come accross it, buy it, even if you hate the manics, and give it to someone who'd appreciate it....I used to have a (taped) copy of the cd version of suicide is painless, with the 'sleeping with the NME' track, which was a recording of the people at the NME offices talking about whether or not to include *that* picture. some great dialogue:
'what if some kid tries to copy it, and ends up killing themself?"
"by cutting their forearm?"
"they could if they missed..."
 
 
T*M*U*M*A
14:24 / 24.01.02
i downloaded Destroy the Dancefloor..

which is from 89 apparently..

i was very pleased with my download of Razorblade Beat which according to the people in the know is from one of their earliest demos..

also i bought the Suicide is Painless japanese single from the internet..

Dead Yankee Drawl is brilliant!

i'd like to get the Stay Beautiful ep .. but thats getting hard to find.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:33 / 24.01.02
I've got it somewhere. Vinyl.

Some of the later B-sides aren't too dusty either... 'Comfort Comes' (from 'Life Becoming a Landslide') is great, and really does prefigure The Holy Bible.
 
 
Bear
14:33 / 24.01.02
I think I probably would like them but I huge problems understanding the lyrics, I just can't make out what he's singing, I'm not the only person with this problem - I think its maybe to do with the part of the world I'm from? strange....
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:34 / 24.01.02
Nah, it's JDB's appalling diction - combined with the fact that he has to mangle the words to make them fit the music.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:43 / 24.01.02
Just chiming in to say that one of my favourite Manics songs remains 'Us Against You', one of the b-sides to 'Roses In The Hospital'. Pure, spitting vitriol - I'm tempted to post the entire lyrics, but won't...

"Maybe a Sunday supplement will come up soon
A documentary on censorship sounds real cool
It's easy to see that I went to public school..."


I still have a soft spot for Gold Against The Soul, because it was the album that got me into them. And because the title track is brilliant - again, lyrical fuckin' flameguns...

"Close the pits, sanctify Roy Lynk, an O.B.E.
Shareholding a piece of this fucking country
Fossilize, make Yorkshire into a tourist resort
And dream of new ways to humble the poor..."


The Holy Bible is still the one, though. In my top 10 greatest albums ever made, for ever and ever. Really, people can say what they like about the Manics, but nobody has ever made a record quite like that one.

Oh, and I was very into them for a while, as in borderline obsessed. But the magic's long gone now.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:48 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Bear:
I think I probably would like them but I huge problems understanding the lyrics, I just can't make out what he's singing, I'm not the only person with this problem - I think its maybe to do with the part of the world I'm from? strange....


With Richey's lyrics, by the time of The Holy Bible they were so mad and allusive and eliptical and crammed together that the overall effect, when you throw in JDB's diction, is just mental. The good thing about this with that album is that it makes you go away and read and puzzle out the lyrics, which I think are that rare thing in rock music - lyrics that still stand up when written down rather than sung. I still don't know what "Pro-life equals anti-choice, to be scared of feathers" means.

Increasingly however, JDB's diction serves to hide the fact that Nicky Wire has devolved into one of the world's worst lyricists. Ever.
 
 
T*M*U*M*A
15:08 / 24.01.02
well .. richey was a poet at heart.

anyway, i love JDB for his Slash sleighing guitar work..

o o o!.. i forgot to mention that i've got japanese versions of Holy Bible and Gold Against The Soul..

GATS has the Roses in the hospital remixes that were on the 12 inch single release

holy bible has live versions of Drug Drug Druggy, Roses In The Hospital and You Love Us (which is brilliant) from glastonbury 94 and there's a live version of New Art Riot, although i've forgotten where abouts it was recorded and i cant be arsed to go and get the sleeve notes.
 
 
NotBlue
18:02 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by expressionless:
OOOH! I've got a brilliant live version of Theme from MASH, too!

Let's talk Manics rare shit! Anyone got early b-sides?


Accoustic versions of "raindrops keep falling on my head" and "Pennyroyal Tea"
 
 
NotBlue
18:05 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:


I still don't know what "Pro-life equals anti-choice, to be scared of feathers" means.



Ask her midgets.
 
 
rizla mission
18:11 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Duncan disorderly:

Accoustic versions of .. "Pennyroyal Tea"


Though speaking of acoustic Nirvana covers, 'Fatty' Bradfield's rendition of 'Been a Girl' was an absolute travesty for which he should be eternally kicked up the arse.
 
 
NotBlue
19:36 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:


Though speaking of acoustic Nirvana covers, 'Fatty' Bradfield's rendition of 'Been a Girl' was an absolute travesty for which he should be eternally kicked up the arse.


Opps. Only Raindrops... was acoustic, Pennyroyal Tea was screamingelectrorockout.
 
 
Not Here Still
21:18 / 24.01.02
Richey Edwards.net - interesting resource.

I've got intermittent Manics stuff - including Suicide is Painless (with the Fatima Mansions on the B side) and Faster, with the-then Dust Brothers (now chemical Brothers) remixes of Tristessa. I've also just bought the remixes of Let Robeson Sing, which contain a hilarious rap by Ian Brown.

I hated the Manics at first - it was the hype, which always turns me against something.

But eventually, when I actually sat and listened, I found a lot to like.

I've actually seen the Manics live more often than any other band - including the Reading they played without Richey in '94, and the tour they played with him shortly afterwards, as well as a couple of times as a trio and one other, though I can't remember when, with Richey.

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: Not Me Again ]
 
 
rizla mission
14:10 / 25.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:


Though speaking of acoustic Nirvana covers, 'Fatty' Bradfield's rendition of 'Been a Girl' was an absolute travesty for which he should be eternally kicked up the arse.


By which I of course meant 'Been a Son'.
Must get some oil for that Nirvana/Mansun differentiation chip..
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:15 / 25.01.02
You should hear the appalling mangling they inflicted on 'The Drowners'. Bleh.
 
 
NotBlue
23:31 / 25.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
[QB]

With Richey's lyrics, by the time of The Holy Bible they were so mad and allusive and eliptical and crammed together ........ I still don't know what "Pro-life equals anti-choice, to be scared of feathers" means.

QB]


Considering the guy's state of mind at the time of writing, that you "dont get" some of the lyrics is probably something to be thankful for.
 
 
Seth
21:08 / 03.10.02
Anyone heard the new single yet? Care to tell me what it's like?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:03 / 04.10.02
NME have put out a collection of all or most of their Manics stuff with a tatt-ed Richey on the cover. You won't get much change for a fiver but I'm this far from buying it...
 
 
rizla mission
16:39 / 04.10.02
I caught *a* new Manics track on the radio last night .. don't know if it was a new single or leftover from their album or what, but it was fucking AWFUL.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:25 / 02.12.02
I think I'm going to cry - my God, they just won't let it lie, will they? And calling a song 'Forever Delayed - how crass.
 
 
The Falcon
22:10 / 02.12.02
Manic Street Preachers = The Labour Party.
 
  

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