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The Brave & The Bold

 
  

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Haus of Mystery
20:58 / 26.04.07
I really like the feel of the B+B. As i said elsewhere it reminds me of the late 80's DCU which was my first real exposure to the colourful, bizarre and just plain fun mish-mash of said Universe. As Falke stated, the gambling planet alone justifiesme buying the comic, but perhaps the main reason I'm digging it is that the team-ups are genuinely positive. Batman and Blue Beetle team up and Batman isn't an asshole to BB, doesn't refer to his amateurishness etc. In the sneering 'realworld' of post-Millar comics I'm finding it genuinely refeshing. Plus you get a new team every issue, whilst the overarching plot gathers momentum. It's accessible, yet continuity heavy for big babies like me. Really, I think it's a textbook example of fun superheroing, done by a couple of old hands who clearly relish the opprtunity to splash around in the funtime DCU.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:52 / 27.04.07
Falke - In another thread, preferably. I'm not saying it won't be fun, but it has run it's course here, plz, thx.

Well, it was part of my original posting at the beginning of the thread, but perhaps this would be a reason (excuse) to resurrect the All-Star Challenge thread? Make up some team-ups and then decide how to go about them?

MacReady - ...but perhaps the main reason I'm digging it is that the team-ups are genuinely positive. Batman and Blue Beetle team up and Batman isn't an asshole to BB, doesn't refer to his amateurishness etc. In the sneering 'realworld' of post-Millar comics I'm finding it genuinely refeshing.

This is a big part of the reason why this series has clicked with me so far. And I may even continue reading it with the Lobo next issue, despite my disdain for Lobo.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
04:06 / 27.04.07
With regards to Lobo, I'm just sad he's lost the dreads.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:37 / 27.04.07
Old skool Mr Terrific and new Skool Mr Terrific

Just for the record, this has already been done. Geoff Johns, JSA.

Why yes, it was anus. How did you guess?
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:25 / 27.04.07
Do wizard still champion this guy?

Has Robin ever done an adventure with Superman? I'm sure he has, but can't think of anything with just the two of them, always seems to be Batman with the kid, and Superman meeting for a chat - I always get the impression that superman doesn't approve of Robin being in that life for some reason - be nice for him to see Robin being good at what he's good at.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
09:58 / 27.04.07
There was a two part Superman and Robin story in the 1990's with a vampire in a hospital. I seem to remember the name Doctor Alucard...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:57 / 27.04.07
Has Robin ever done an adventure with Superman?

I'm sorry, but the eternal 12 year old in me finds that very amusing.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:22 / 27.04.07
Har-hars aside, I'm fairly certain that Superman teamed up with Robin on several occasions during the pre-crisis "One Step Down from the Haneyverse" DC Comics Presents series. Possibly involving several flavours of Robin (ie Earth-Two). Post-crisis, I think there was a badly drawn Nightwing story about Dick Grayson hangiong out with Clark and Clark being the reason behind his shift to "Nightwing" from "Robin." I'm not sure if he's done anything (har har) with Tim Drake.

I'm unsure of how I feel about the upcoming issue, thinking about it further - as characters go, Lobo & the latest revamp of Supergirl are probably two of my least favourite DC characters, but Waid can probably turn that around.
 
 
This Sunday
19:29 / 27.04.07
There's an old story that was reprinted a few times in the seventies and eighties, which involves the Bat/Supes team-up being shattered by one Powerman, whom Superman would rather fly around with, it seemed. Robin is very very sidelined, and sort of mopes about how hurt Bats is about being snubbed, when, of course, Robin is right there to team up any time Batty wants to and he doesn't seem to notice or care.

Also, yeah, they've teamed up to punch and leap at things several times, though not that I know of on their own (aside from whatever's already been mentioned above). Unless it was one of those things that led to the Nightwing name, because that is, to memory, a Kryptonian hero name used by Batman and Superman teaming up in Kandor or something. It's a bird from Krypton.
 
 
Benny the Ball
19:32 / 27.04.07
Nightwing was Superman's pseudonym while being a hero/vigilante with Jimmy Olsen in Kandor. Jimmy was Flamebird I think.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:27 / 28.04.07
I think there was a badly drawn Nightwing story about Dick Grayson hangiong out with Clark and Clark being the reason behind his shift to "Nightwing" from "Robin."

That would be 'Nightwing: Year One', that ran around the 100th episode of the formerly-good-now-shit Nightwing series.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
13:19 / 28.04.07
I'm pretty sure that scene has been played out before, a long time ago.

Tim Drake was the Robin in the two part Superman/Vampire story, a semi-sequal, I think to an annual story with Superman and Batman fighting vampires in a swamp.
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:32 / 29.04.07
I remember the first annual - John Byrne or Art Adams art - a bit where Bat's falls into some quicksand but swims out because if you move slowly you can do that, or something.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:55 / 18.06.07
BUMP. Fourth issue of this odd little series is out this Wednesday, starring (of all people) this year's model of Supergirl and "main man" Lobo. It is probably a testament to the talents of Mark Waid and George Perez within the series framework that I'm actually looking forward to a comic starring this pair, who are two of my least favourite characters ever. Should give us more fodder for discussion of how Kara is being characterized in light of her interactions with Hal Jordan.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:21 / 18.06.07
Waid is slated to write FLASH very soon, which should be terrific. Not many fans have really grooved on Bart Allen as the new, fully red-clad Flash. I bet Waid can get the book back on trek, regardless of who's under the mask. Lotsa people miss Wally West *snif me too*
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
03:42 / 19.06.07
Waid is slated to write FLASH very soon, which should be terrific. Not many fans have really grooved on Bart Allen as the new, fully red-clad Flash. I bet Waid can get the book back on trek, regardless of who's under the mask. Lotsa people miss Wally West *snif me too*

Great news. I miss Wally loads, but I miss a readble Flash book a good deal more. And if Bart is going to be Flash no-one writes him better than Waid so this might be exactly what's needed to give him a kick start.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:16 / 19.06.07
I miss Wally, but...Bart's the man now, and I'd like to see someone kick the crap out of his Emo Flash Era and drag it screaming back into the fun. I miss the things that made Bart unique, and I hope Waid might make an effort to remind us (and Bart) of those things. I want some time travel - it's the only thing that makes Bart's origin unique! He's just a bland trickle-down genetics speedster otherwise. I want the hyperactivity - sure, he's a grown-up now, but he's still Bart. The 30th Century aspects were brought up but dropped in a page, Inertia didn't seem developed at all. I want to see Meloni Thawne and the Tornado Twins (available via divergent time-hopping or the like), I want Bart remembering his cousin Jenni -- where did she go? He was there when her reality disappeared, and who knows what he remembers after Infinite Crisis.

I might have to reopen an All-Star Challenge for Bart Allen.

Thing is, I've heard rumours (rumours, sure, unsubstantiated, yeah) about Waid's Flash being Barry Allen, come back from the grave. I hope not! For one thing, if it's a ploy we've seen it before (Zoom!) and for another, I think that might tip the love of old continuity bits and compressed storytelling right over into Silver Age self-abuse.

But, back on the topic at hand -- Brave and the Bold -- I'm curious to see how the Legion's going to be handled in #5, given that Waid's been stringing the team-up characters throughout the series rather than confining them to one specific issue - Kara will probably be tangentially related to what's going on. And Batman's been meeting the Earth-1 Legion over in the JLA and JSA books. Do we think that's going to factor, or is this the beginning of a new Haneyverse, freeing him up to focus on other stuff?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:09 / 20.06.07
Shock and awe, children. Waid did it. He made me like Supergirl. And made me want to see her grow up to become Superwoman. In the space of one issue. I was a little sad, though -- seeing her ditch the bike leathers and studded collar to look like plain old regular Supergirl.

Also, a surprisingly not-pretentious use of Gaiman's Destiny.
 
 
Uatu.is.watching
15:51 / 21.06.07
Just for the record, Destiny is not Gaiman's creation. Like the Halls, Doctor Destiny, and Cain & Abel, Destiny was kicking around the DCU for quite a while before Sandman.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:09 / 21.06.07
Okay, perhaps "The most recently popularized by Neil Gaiman" Destiny would have been a better statement?

[+] [-] Spoiler I can't say I was terribly thrilled by that final two-page spread of the threeboot Legion. I don't particularly hate them, but there was something off about Perez's drawing of them, many of them (particularly Triplicate Girl, Light Lass, Brainac 5...) with blanded zombified facial expressions, that suggested extreme boredom or existential despair.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:25 / 21.06.07
Another solid, enjoyable issue - which considering how much I dislike Lobo is an achievement. Fun banter (not too seedy), more cosmic planet-hopping, and a deepening mystery. Best superhero DC are producing at the mo? I reckon so.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
16:45 / 21.06.07
Spoiler warning on:







Considering I read this at the same time I read Meltzer's forgettable Lightning Saga (which wasn't so much a 'saga' as a machine made out of comic books to pop out you-know-who at the end for no particular reason other than that people are getting pissed off with the current you-know-who) I got a little confused about how the Legion fits into the post-52 DCU. So there's a Legion in Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes, which is the Legion Batman encounters at the end of B&B #5 and there's a Legion that, one assumes, was dissapeared from continuity in Crisis on Infinite Earths which is now back following 52 and which Superman used to hang out with as a Superboy. Is the Legion we saw in the Lightning Saga an adult version of the one from Supergirl and Legion? Are they from other Earths? If so which one? What the dillyo?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:51 / 21.06.07
One of the current theories regarding the Lighting Saga (ugh, horrible name) is that the Legion we see there is the Legion from the regenerated Earth-1 (which is a seperate earth from New Earth or whatever), and they're the ones who had adventures with Superman as a boy. This is my understanding of the theory, particularly from the recent Action Comics issue with Supergirl and the Legion using a time-viewer and general speculation I've seen. I'm curious how deeply entrenched in continuity Waid is going to make The Brave and the Bold, as in: will Batman comment on this Legion not being the Legion he was recently involved with? Or is he going to invoke Haneyverse rules and have Batman blandly accept whatever?
 
 
Spaniel
21:35 / 21.06.07
Blithely?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:26 / 22.06.07
Mmn. I imagine parallel futures aren't a big priority when you've just been accidentally grafted onto a psychotic cyborg.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:55 / 18.07.07
The Brave and the Bold #5 - "The Batman of Tomorrow" - came out today and I'm still not convinced George Perez should be allowed to draw the threeboot Legion. Dangers of zombie face.

[+] [-] Spoiler Instead of treating us to a Haneyverse solution, we're stuck with a continuity note explaining that this all proceeds the events of "Lightning Saga." Forgetting that this would suggest Batman should have already known who Karate Kid was when they met in the chronologically later story. Pfeh. Haneyverse!

That said, this issue made me like this version of the Legion a lot more than I did before. And Waid still manages to write a well-done Supergirl that I walk away liking, rather than feeling moderately embarassed about.
 
 
Mario
10:53 / 19.07.07
Actually, there's a hint about how DC is going to handle the Legion situation... specifically, mention of an untold adventure called "The Legion of Three Worlds".

In it's last mention, in the latest JSofA, we get the following:
[+] [-] Spoiler Superman: But is that why the Legion were here? To bring the Flash home?
Starman: From the vibrational plane! Zip! Zoom! The Legion of three worlds! Do you remember XS? She had such a crush on you. And I got to meet another Thom and another Thom!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:24 / 19.07.07
I really mix XS. She was a fun character.

"The Legion of Three Worlds" - when I was a wee one, scrounging up old Justice League/Justice Society team-ups (particularly the Perez-drawn "Crisis in Limbo" story), I always wanted to see an Earth-2 Legion, so this plays into my sensibilities quite well.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:04 / 16.08.07
The Brave and the Bold #6 is out today, featuring a pretty striking cover, Green Lantern and Batman trapped within the horrible eye of one of the Luck Lords. This concludes the first story arc in B&B, and paves the way for the Wonder Woman / Power Girl pairing slated for #7. Some thoughts, floating in the spoiler zone:

[+] [-] Spoiler A pretty harsh open splash page for Mister Waid, although it clearly established the stakes and of course we're all going into this knowing that destiny can be subverted -- that's the whole point of super-heroes, isn't it?

Batman's in the 31st Century with the Legion, caught in a trap by the Luck Lords and their Thanagarian hawk-warrior minions who have apparently decided to wear budgie-inspired helmet at some point in the last thousand years.

One of the problems I have with the threeboot Legion: Invisible Kid does not look like a Legionnaire. I like the idea that he's shorter and younger than the other Legionnaires, but he hasn't caught a costume, he just looks like some kid who stumbled into the fight. Even if Kitson was pencilling this rather than Perez, it would take me a minute to figure who was trapped with Batman and Brainiac 5. The threebooted Invisible Kid just hasn't been given a distinctive enough look at this point.

Luck Lords as war profiteers, artificially manipulating planetary politics....seems like a lot of work to keep a war going for ten centuries.

Again, typical of time travel stories where you know that this is all going to be undone, there's some more gore -- I'm not sure I needed to see Braniac 5 reduced to bits of flying green meat.

I love the Rannian weaponry like the aqua-ray!

Waid continues to write a Supergirl that I want to read about. Her ruminations in an earlier issue about whether or not she'll be a Superwoman followed by her willingly looking into the Book of Destiny. We get a nice little recap of the story arc so far...

Power Ring / Zeta-Beam MacGuffin works well within the rules and limitations of a Haneyverse proto-Silver Age story. Perez pulls it off for the story's benefit by clearly marking it as a deus ex machina - a heavenly beam of green from the clouds.

The timestream spread is gorgeous in a geek-Silver Age science fiction comics way. OMAC! Ultra! Space Ranger! Along with all those Flashes zipping back and forth down the ages. Including, notably, John Fox.

The revelation of who the Men who weren't there are - initially I thought Destiny had meant the Luck Lords themselves, but clearly not - is fun and in fitting with the "throw all the action figures in the toybox at the plot" method of storytelling that Waid is using, giving Perez tons of favourites to draw - but the mechanics of why the Challengers of the Unknown defied death to the point of disappearing from the Book of Destiny doesn't really gel for me, given the number of characters who have escaped death or been resurrected outright. I don't necessarily need a pseudo-scientific explanation, but something more about how Batman reached that conclusion about who to call in when his best friend has walked away from the grave and half the Justice League...

Supergirl suffers a GEOFF!JOHNS! moment, but thank god we're in a Waid comic and the whole thing can be hand waved with trinary suns and super-power speed-healing.

Ace of the Challengers riding a giant, flying, purple gun. I tells ya...

I still don't know how I feel about that final page, but I definitely want to see more of Waid's take on Kara.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:21 / 21.08.07
Cover for The Brave and the Bold #8.

Written by Mark Waid
Art by George Pérez & Bob Wiacek
Cover by Pérez
A virtually unstoppable force has driven the Doom Patrol to the brink of destruction and despair! And why is The Flash the only hero who can possibly stand between them and utter chaos?
On sale November 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US


Exciting to see the Doom Patrol in action again, especially as I seem to recall a lot of Silver Age team-ups between them and the Flash, for some reason. It's looking like the originals, so I'm wondering what their current continuity situation is -- does anyone even remember? I thought Mento was gibbering but still on the team, and Bumblebee, and the Herald. Not to mention Beast Boy. I really can't keep track anymore. Wonder what the reason behind the long wait between the coming issues is, given that they've usually been pretty bang on every month.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:23 / 21.11.07
Okay, so I might be the only body still reading this series, and I'm getting a little annoyed by the Challengers framing device, but the eighth issue is out this week and features Flash and the Doom Patrol! Highlighting some old Titans history for us and generally showing exactly why I love the Doom Patrol -- they're creepy. I'm not entirely convinced by the new Flash Family status quo, though I can appreciate the attempt to bring in a new chapter of Flash History (Flash as Father), and now I really want Waid to write a new Doom Patrol series. He knows when to nod to the Drake stuff and the Morrison stuff. The Doom Patrol - as - Munsters thing is interesting.

And the overriding plotline, the alchemistic "Megustis" thing is more interesting this time 'round after the slightly dismal Power Girl / Wonder Woman team-up from last issue. That said, I'm reading this more for the sheer, unbridled weirdness (Robotboy, for god's sake! Negative Girl!) than any emotional attachment to the plotline.
 
 
Mark Parsons
00:21 / 22.11.07
Geof Johns used the DP in TEEN TITANS and the B&B take seems more or lass anlong those lines, although Beast Boy, Mento, Bublebee and Omen (?) are absent on the B&B story.

I loved the creepy castle and the outsider/outcast aura of the DP that Waid puts forth here: another issue of spot on characterization in a short space of time/pages. They were always "prickly" even amongst themselves in the original Drake run: these tales are worth their weight on gold and I HIGHLY recommend picking them up in Archive format: v5 is due out in early 08.

I was glad to see a slight break from the overarching metaplot thread: I am enjoying it, but it gave this issue's story a nice bit of breathing room. All told, this run is pure fun & entertainment, and is amongs the best things Waid has done (and he's done a damn great job on a number of projetcs).
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:16 / 22.11.07
Agreed. Best Waid comic since the original Flash run, and Perez is on fine form - couldn't ask for a more perfect Old school DC super comic really.
 
 
Spaniel
10:20 / 22.11.07
I don't really have a whole heap to say about this comic other than I like it a lot, and tend to agree that it's by far the best thing Waid's done in ages.
 
  

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